[PTrust]

Sorry to hear of your problems with two former Panty Trust members Asuka. As Anna and Serena stated, Panty Trust has no physical hold over members to force delivery. The process and choice to join Panty Trust however does help to signify that a seller is a real person who does consider customer service and fair business practices to be a priority. That sets the seller apart from the average seller that you’ll find on the internet. Due to the nature of the internet panty selling business, even Panty Trust can’t promise a perfect solution, but with Panty Trust, at least a buyer has a fighting chance if a problem occurs whereas with a non Panty Trust member you’ve got no chance of any satisfaction if something goes wrong.

Panty Trust does have several safeguards in place to assist buyers if a problem occurs. These safeguards are in place while the seller is an active member and can include a refund of the buyer’s money up to the amount of the member’s membership fee ($50.00). When a member lets Panty Trust know that they are retiring or no longer selling, a portion of their membership fee is returned to them (as long as there are no outstanding buyer complaints on file). This is done as an incentive to let us know that they are no longer active so that we can get them off of the active member list to keep the list up to date.

It is very important for any buyer who purchases from a Panty Trust member to report a problem immediately. When a member lets us know that they are no longer active and we have nothing to alert us of any problems, the money sent back to the seller is the money that would be used to refund a buyer. In this case for example, you’re talking about two ladies who haven’t been members of Panty Trust for quite a long time. When they left, we had no reason to believe that their refunds should be withheld. At this point in time, I’d be happy to try and contact them for you on behalf of Panty Trust but it has been long enough that I don’t even know if they still have/check the email addresses we had for them.

Bill
Panty Trust Manager

[PTrust]

As Viking indicated, a seller can be reported directly by anyone who feels the need to do so for whatever reason.

It is logical to also believe that Paypal runs scans on transactions for red flag keywords and then examines flagged transactions more closely for violations. A seller has little control over what a buyer might put in the “notes” section of the payment form.

I can verify that Paypal investigators do in fact browse panty selling themed sites to look for sellers advertising that they accept Paypal. Several years ago, shortly after Paypal dis-allowed payments for used panties, we at Panty Trust received a legal “cease and desist” letter from Paypal listing the URL of each seller page on the Panty Trust website that indicated that the seller accepted Paypal and demanding that any references to Paypal acceptance be removed from the site.

I can verify as well that Paypal can and has excised its option to take punitive action against a buyer’s account as well the seller’s account. Yes, some sellers and buyers have gotten away with skirting the Paypal rules for years. Taking or making payments through Paypal for prohibited items is much like smoking. Some smokers have lived to be 100 with no problems, unfortunately though, the majority will likely die early from smoking related illnesses. The official position of Panty Trust members is that taking Paypal payments for prohibited items, beside being unethical because it violates Paypal’s term of service, puts both the seller and buyer at risk and adds an element of deception to the transaction. Therefore, our members decided some time ago that it was important enough to address in our member Code of Conduct.

Bill
Panty Trust Manager

[PTrust]

Hello Panty Hog,

I’ve been contacted by several people asking why I, as the manager of Panty Trust, have made no comments in the recent threads regarding Panty Trust. Our service and unblemished reputation for over five years coupled with the service, actions, and awards our members have consistently shown and acquired tends to speak for itself. My personal belief is that an anonymous poster in an internet thread who would suggest that there is anything “fishy” about Panty Trust is irrelevant and instantly loses credibility because they paint themselves as someone who either hasn’t bothered to read up on a topic before posting, knows nothing about the used panty community and its history, or has other, more personal reasons to attempt to “cast doubt”.

Please keep in mind that over the years Panty Trust has given some people reason not to like us too much. With the launch of Panty Trust, it immediately became more difficult for frauds and cheats to continue their business, we have revoked Panty Trust memberships from those who evidence had shown were no longer following ethical or fair business practices, we’ve taken strong action against those who have fraudulently displayed our seal in an attempt to mislead buyers, and we’ve refused memberships to those who for a number reasons did not meet the standards required to be a member of Panty Trust.

Panty Trust very much appreciates the support many have shown recently, and I agree that Anna has done a very nice job and has gone above the call of duty by helping to clear up misconceptions for those that actually had questions as opposed to other agendas. Please keep in mind as well that two or three people who happen to post auctions at ebanned do not represent ebanned the business. Panty Trust has a very good relationship with ebanned itself and a good number of our Panty Trust members sell there. Anyone with questions about the way something works at Panty Trust is always welcome to contact me for a personal response.

Thank you, Bill, Panty Trust Manager

[PTrust]

Hello and thank you to those that have posted nice comments here. Jessica since some of your questions were answered in it, I get the feeling that you didn’t read any of the long post I put here in response to your first question, nor do you seem to have read any of the information on the Panty Trust site. That’s disappointing because as I write this, I imagine you won’t take the time to read this either. Likewise, the thread is rather distasteful to Panty Trust and its members and supporters because it seems that you have missed the boat entirely on what Panty Trust is all about. Money has nothing to do with it, Panty Trust is here for those that wish to constantly improve the used panty fetish community that we all care for.

For those actually interested and that do get the reason for Panty Trust, I’m happy to answer the questions posed.

Bill, how did you come to open panty trust? Are you a ex/current panty buyer who decided to set it up for the girls?

As I said in my first response and as is related on our site, Panty Trust was started by a group of buyers and sellers on an adult auction site. It was moved by this group to become an independent service in 2003. Over the last six years, members of this original group got busy with life, moved on, etc. Sean and I are the only two who have consistently been here the whole time. How is it that I happen to manage and work as webmaster of Panty Trust? Simple, nobody else has volunteered. I’m the only one so far that has been able to commit the time and resources needed to run it. I had the technical ability, and the wallet available to fund the site out of my pocket for several years. We have many members and countless buyers depending on me as the manager to make sure the operation of Panty Trust goes smoothly. If someone came along that could be absolutely trusted to commit the time and effort to do the same as I do, I’d be happy to get them involved.

What is the “small fee” for?

The small fee of $35.00 is to discourage people from wasting Panty Trust’s and their own time. As Panty Trust grew we started to get a large amount of applications from people who obviously didn’t give a hoot about the philosophy behind Panty Trust they just wanted an “ad”. Plus a number of people who would start the process wouldn’t finish it. We’d spend a couple of hours time working with them, setting up their web page and membership just to have them turn around and tell us that they decided not to sell after all, if they even did respond. The token fee that we have weeds out those that are not committed and ensures that we only process serious applicants. $35.00 can easily be spent on listing a seven day featured auction on a popular adult auction site. If no one bids in that seven days you’ve got nothing but a bill. $35.00 spent at Panty Trust however gives you a lifetime membership and entitlement to all its benefits. The tangible benefits are clearly listed on our web site. Those mean nothing however when compared to the intangible benefits.

Where does the money go exactly?

First of all, keep in mind when Panty Trust is sent $40.00 some of that is lost immediately through the processing fees imposed by our payment processor. Then, $5.00 of what we do get goes into escrow because it is given back to the member if/when the leave Panty Trust. The exact place the money goes is back into the site to promote our members. Specifically, it pays for hosting, domain registration, paying to advertise on other sites, SEO services, payment of fees for our merchant account, and paying for ad word advertisement on Google and Yahoo. Notice, there is nothing that Panty Trust sells. We don’t even accept paid advertising due to the nature of being an unbiased service. The money we spend to promote and advertise the service/site is 100% for the sales benefit of the women listed as members. If at the end of the month we somehow manage to have something left over, I might be a little selfish and put it toward the payment for a Big Gulp to keep me awake while I work on the site and its promotion in the middle of the night after my wife and kids have gone to bed.

I would love to get verified…i’m just not so keen on sending a weeks shopping £ and a pair of knickers to somebody called Bill.…

You don’t send your shopping money to an individual named Bill. You send it to an organization named Panty Trust. The fact that I volunteer to make sure that money is used responsibly to keep the organization viable by using it to pay the organization’s bills is meaningless. If the membership of Panty Trust trusted you to do it, I’d love the help. Incidentally, you are not a member of panty Trust, and I notice your website is hosted on a free server, you go by a made up name, you don’t show your face, and you appear to be using stock photos borrowed from another web site anyway. Why exactly should I be expected to share my complete personal details with you? I manage Panty Trust, I work for it for the organization, I am not Panty Trust itself. Many people are involved in some manner or another. Some members who have been around awhile do know me more personally, but I don’t make it a habit of dicussing my personal life with anyone that asks out of the blue. Do you ask for the personal life information of all the employees working at Walmat before you buy something?

I’m sure other girls wanting to sell have thought the same and you’ve probably been asked all this in the past.

You are correct there is information addressing these types of questions on the Panty Trust website and on these Panty Hog forums.

Thank you, Bill, Panty Trust Manager

[PTrust]

Panty Trust is run by panty buyers and sellers. Anyone who has been involved in the used panty community is welcome and encouraged to volunteer to assist with the day to day operations. A core group consists of myself (I manage the site), Sean who manages the process for new applicants, and  Anna who completes the verification of European members. Other community members volunteer as they have time (such as Cindy who has been a real sweetheart and has always been willing to help with anything over the years). Volunteers assist with verification activities, handling member and buyer questions, answering email, helping people who might have a concern, and dispute resolution activities in the rare instances it has been needed over the years. Proposals and suggestions for any changes to Panty Trust are made by any member or community member and are then decided on by all Panty Trust members.

Panty Trust was started in the forums of an adult auction site back in 2001. Basically a group of buyers and sellers who were frustrated with fraud and bad business practices got together and came up with the Panty Trust idea and membership procedures. In 2003 the group decided to separate from association with any particular selling site and become an independent service so that anyone buying and selling used lingerie anywhere on the internet could benefit.

Membership was free for several years, however as Panty Trust started to grow, it was decided that a small fee to join was needed to discourage those that were just “looking for advertising” and/or just felt that they should join simply because others had. Panty Trust and its members take our goal of bettering customer service and promoting trust in the used panty community very seriously. All members have worked very hard over the last many years to build the reputation that the organization now has. Frankly, Panty Trust is not interested in having every panty seller as a member because not every panty seller can uphold the commitment to customer service and fair business practices that we strive for. If they did, there would be no reason for Panty Trust to exist.

The Panty Trust site is well visited, and there are many buyers who won’t even consider buying from those who aren’t members. Think of it this way, if you were a buyer looking at two sellers who are equally appealing to you and who both had good feedback from past buyers, but only one of them cared enough to take the time and effort to declare that the promotion of outstanding customer service and trust was very important to them, which one of those sellers would you buy from? Panty Trust certainly helps sellers get noticed, but then again, if this is the only reason a seller wants to join, and the seller doesn’t actually “buy into” the idea of bettering the community, then Panty Trust truly does not want them as a member because it is our reputation and our members who do take this philosophy very seriously who will ultimately suffer for it.

Bill
Panty Trust Manager

[PTrust]

Hello Lolita,

We have received your request for membership in Panty Trust. Unfortunately, our attempts to contact you at your email address have been unsuccessful. Our emails are returned by Hotmail as undeliverable. Please contact us and let us know if you have an alternative address.

Thank you, Bill Panty Trust webmaster

[PTrust]

The problem here is that we at Panty Trust have never even heard of Sydney and her site. This is not a case of jumping the gun before the process is completed, this person is not “in process”.

When Panty Trust first started, people were worried that we’d have people trying to “fool us” during the process. Since this was quickly found to be very difficult, what we’ve found instead is a common problem of people simply displaying the Panty Trust seal or stating that they are members when they are not. Just this past weekend we received two complaints from two different buyers saying that they have paid for items at ashleighsusedpanties.com and have never received them or even a response to their emails. Since the owner of the site proudly displays the Panty Trust seal, the two buyers came to us for help. The problem of course is that “ashleigh” is not and has never been a member of Panty Trust. The display of the Panty Trust seal on her site is a complete fraud, what’s worse, since she appears to be ripping buyers off left and right, people come to us for help and we have to turn them away.

Panty Trust will continue to do our best to educate buyers that unless a seal links to the seller’s page at Panty Trust, the seal is a fake.

[PTrust]

Hello Ladies:

I have contacted this seller so she should be all set. I don’t think you need to worry that Panty Trust will pack it in and not let anyone know. Fraudsters are still around, Panty Trust isn’t going anywhere.  🙂

[PTrust]

Cindy makes a good point about “girls like this”. Panty Trust is not meant for every seller, if every seller were a Panty Trust member there wouldn’t be much special about belonging to Panty Trust, and it would be hard to say that Panty Trust represents the cream of the crop of sellers since we’d represent them all. As the manager of the Panty Trust program, I often say that if only one honest and quality seller existed and she was a member, we’d be happy having only that one member.

Over the years Panty Trust has been around, we’ve heard it all. Most comments like the one mentioned actually come from people who have never taken the time to read what Panty Trust is all about. In simplest terms, Panty Trust is a group of sellers who believe that excellent customer service and fair business practices are among the most important part of used lingerie sales.

One of the most memorable comments I’ve read came from a seller who said “I haven’t joined Panty Trust because the verified seal and the available dispute resolution process makes panty selling too businesslike”. Personal service during the transaction is extremely important and falls under the customer service umbrella. However, a seller that doesn’t at least consider the business aspect of selling at some point in the transaction is not being respectful towards buyers. The buyer is paying their hard earned, real money for your product and therefore rightly deserves to expect to be treated fairly and to receive what they paid for. If a seller isn’t ready to take responsibility for the “businesslike” handling of a customer’s money and purchase, they shouldn’t be accepting money for items in the first place. A carefree approach may be fine with you, but it isn’t for your client.

As far as making a difference, I’ve heard now countless times from buyers that it makes a difference to them. Evidence of that can be seen in Ella Ebony Rose’s first post and Fetish Kitten’s post in this thread: https://www.usedpantyportal.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=277&topic=2261.15.

[PTrust]

News letters have been sent out to Panty Trust members now with important information for members.

[PTrust]

If you include a self addressed envelope with appropriate postage, your item is always returned to you. Keep in mind however that we are in the United States. This means that if you put UK postage on the return envelope, it is worthless here in the States. In this case, we suggest including $5.00 USD with your item instead, or we can accept an online payment for the postage. Truthfully, my advice to the ladies that ask is simply to use either an inexpensive pair, or a pair of panties that are about ready for the trash anyway. This way, you don’t have to worry about having them returned. Panties that are not required to be returned are simply thrown away.

Is joining Panty Trust worth it? Well Jess mentioned a few good points including the fact that it relieves you of the constant requests for sending “verification photos” since you can just direct them to your page on Panty Trust, it brings you exposure to Panty Buyers that I don’t believe you can get elsewhere, some buyers only buy from Panty Trust members, and maybe most importantly, it signifies that as a seller you go out of your way to promote good customer service and trust in the used panty marketplace.

Think about this; if you were a panty buyer and two identical twin sisters were selling a pair of their panties, they’re equal in every way, but one is a Panty Trust member offering all the Panty Trust goodies including dispute resolution services, which one would you buy from?

Take care,
Bill – Panty Trust Webmaster

[PTrust]

We’re back in full now. Thank you.

[PTrust]

[quote author=Pencap link=topic=422.msg2602#msg2602 date=1126577030]
Let me be the first to thank you Bill, for that brief glimpse of PT, and joining us here at Tha Hog!!….I look forward to the interview….go get em AMY!

Brief?  :cheer:

Thank you Pencap.

[PTrust]

Hello Panty Hoggers,
First a big apology to Amy. The interview has been on my list, and I?m sorry that I haven?t yet made the time to do it. I will contact you this week to get this done.

I am assuming that I will have an opportunity provide more detailed information regarding Panty Trust in the interview, but I am happy to at least touch on some of the questions and/or concerns raised here in this forum. I?ve read through the posts here and think that I can address them in this space. I think I understand what the user Andie was trying to say here regarding an understanding of what Panty Trust is all about. Verification is actually only a part of Panty Trust. Referring to Panty Trust as a verification service is akin to calling McDonald?s a French fry store. Like the fries at McD?s, verification is on our menu, but so is a great deal more. Associating Panty Trust solely with used panty seller verification is probably partially caused by our advertisements (banner ads) that are seen around the web. Unfortunately, a banner ad has less than one half of one second to catch a surfer?s attention. The verification theme of our ads simply grabs attention much better than say something about our third party dispute resolution and mediation services would. Our hope and intention of course is that the surfer will click the ad and then learn of all of our services once they visit the site. I won?t take up much more space here on issues not related to the verification topic; I?ll save that for the interview.

Our verification process is the most comprehensive on the web, period. Since the goal of Panty Trust is to promote fair business practices in the used panty community, we genuinely appreciate the steps that selling sites have taken to verify sellers on their venues. However, let?s face it, a commonly used step of ensuring the seller has a credit card tells you simply that the seller has a credit card. Our process works because it is multi-faceted and it addresses the issues that are most meaningful to a potential buyer. The basic process we use is outlined on our web site. If you take a look at it, you?ll see that the next step to go beyond our process would be as someone mentioned here, to actually have a Panty Trust volunteer present in the room to supervise the lady removing her panties and sealing them in the envelope. Obviously, impractical.

As far as scammers attempting to get around our process, I think you?d be very surprised at how infrequently this happens (see next paragraph for what we do see more frequently). I believe there are several reasons why they shy away from us – people in general are lazy, it is a lot of work to put together the sham, becoming Panty Trust verified doesn?t provide any immediate financial gain for the scammer as listing an auction might, and it is a waste of time for them. For example, they spend hours setting up a site, listing auctions, etc. they approach us, we expose them to the selling venues, and now they?re stuck. Also, what you don?t see in the steps listed on our site is what goes on behind the scenes. First of all, the volunteers at Panty Trust aren?t idiots. Everyone has been around awhile, several are long-term seller?s themselves (all Panty Trust members are invited to volunteer), and we deal with issues of verification everyday. We?ve seen the tricks and ploys, and as much as a scammer might like to think other wise, he/she wasn?t the first to think it up. Second, we talk, talk, and talk some more with the owners of the auction venues, selling sites, and experienced panty sellers. It?s bad for everyone?s business to have a fraud selling on their site, so people are happy to work together in this respect.

Instead of scammers attempting to ?beat the verification system?, what we at Panty Trust encounter far more are people trying to fool buyers into believing that they are verified by Panty Trust. So far we have paid out two thousand dollars in rewards to people who have turned in unauthorized users of our seal. We are very proud of the fact that Panty Trust has many loyal users who keep their eyes open for us. We now use a bot that crawls the internet looking for our seal. While this has curtailed the fake seal problem tremendously, now we see people simply posting a photo of a lady holding a sign that says ?Panty Trust? on it. A person that is truly a Panty Trust member will have a Panty Trust seal that when clicked takes you to their own page not the Panty Trust index page, etc.

This is getting to be a much too long forum post, but just to quickly address Cherie?s question on use and awareness of Panty Trust. Anyone who has ever visited a major adult auction site, did a search engine search for used panties, or surfed panty seller sites has been exposed to Panty Trust seals or ads (although they may have no idea of what we are all about). More and more when I visit selling venues and auction sites I see ladies that aren?t members of Panty Trust holding up signs or offering to hold up signs in their photos and I?m fairly certain where they got that idea. Not every real seller is a member of Panty Trust simply because they don?t belong there. Being ?real? is only a prerequisite for being a member. To be a member of Panty Trust, you must be committed to bettering the used panty sales community by promoting fair business practices and have a genuine concern for your buyers. I always say that if there were only one honest seller committed to customer service and the satisfaction of her clients, than we?d be happy to have only that one member. Jazzy summed up my philosophy pretty well regarding the cream of the crop. It’s our reputation, and being a panty seller that is a real person isn’t good enough for the buyers that use our site. There are tons of real ladies selling panties, but we are only interested in promoting and recognizing the real cream of the crop.

Feel free to email me with questions.

Bill
For Panty Trust

[PTrust]

Hello Ladies,
Cherie is correct. We just went through more bandwidth than typical this month. More has been added, and I’ll keep an eye on it.
Thank You

[Author]

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